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Bell Intercoolers fins are uniformly and fully brazed to the entire tube … Any flow restriction is easily overcome by sizing it large enough for your needs, as long as you can make room for it. Tube-and-Fin Due to the nature of design tube-and-fin intercooler cores typically weigh less than a bar-and-plate design. you can see the lip inside there. Apperently the intercooler retails for $750. How many examples would you like of fast Skylines using tube and fin intercoolers. A. Tube-and-Fin vs. Bar-and-Plate. Introduce Yourself Here, looking for : R33 gtst gearbox rear housing. Forged Pistons , Ring end gap & Piston clearance b... Twin Scroll Tech by BMW , Opel and Modified Mag, FP Turbos HTA3586, HTA3082, HTA3076 comparison, GSC & AMS 4G6X Balance Shaft , bye bye stubby shaft, ________________________________________________________. Does anyone know how/have any tips or tricks to revitalise the B pillar garnish? Intercooler Cores Comparison , Bar&Plate vs Tube&Fin, http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/107667-tech-bar-plate-vs-tube-fin-intercoolers.html, http://blog.perrinperformance.com/evolution-of-alta-r56-intercooler/, http://www.extremeintercoolers.com/tech.html, http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm, http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/tanks.htm. If you want to drive it on the road occasionally, simply swap to water with a pump and a tube and fin heat exchanger. the heat rejection of a tube and fin can exceed a bar and plate of the same size, it depends on tube pitch, fins per inch, etc, its all in the design... if the cooler is less restictive, you can make the same power on less boost, which will reduce your charge temp, and lower the work required by the intercooler I have been talking to a couple of workshops who reckon the Hybrid Tube & Fin coolers are better than the japanese brand name coolers, because the jap ones use a bar & plate design. Turbo flows and sizes information, random copy paste from the web. Instead of utilizing the tube like the tube-fin coolers, the plate and fin move the transmission fluid through horizontal aluminum plate series. This is basic stuff that a first year engineering student will learn. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it, New To The Forum? Started December 9, 2016, By tube and fin have the tubes protruding out a bit and some of the air has to do 2 180 degree turns (bar and plate do 2 90 degree turns) so there is slight turbulence. bar and plate flow better than tube and fin. Which in turn creats less presusre drop. In fact that protruding tube, properly designed can improve airflow over an orifice with sharply squared edges of an equivalent area. The tube and fin measures in at 480mm x 430 x 100mm thick. Started Yesterday at 11:43 AM, By Bar and plate intercoolers have a lot of thermal mass and work well as initial heat sinks when air flow across the core is low. 2. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. I'd rather have a bar and plate intercooler. Check out rodmoe's intercooler thread for more FMIC discussions. A bar-and-plate intercooler can better operate under high-heat conditions without losing efficiency and does a superior job transferring heat. the best flowing of all it bar and fin (or tube and plate, can't remember which it is). (Remember that the intercooler cools intake air by heating the body of the intercooler, not by radiating heat to the outside air.) Why is one better than the other? BigMal. Source : http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/tanks.htm, You may catch me by To state the obvious, a 600 X 300 X 65 B&P core is not going to flow as well as a 600 X 300 X 150 T&F core. Email : info@fatboyracing.com.my A properly designed bar and plate intercooler being fed ample airflow in the front of a vehicle offers exceptional cooling efficiency that translates to lots of consistant power. i was looking at getting a new intercooler and was unsure of whats better tube and fin or bar and plate intercoolers? The workshop reckons that tube & fin is better because it is physically lighter and flows better. 4" P/B wins hands down for a centrifugal supercharger. Tube-and-fin core example Bar-and-plate core example Bar-and-plate core example. The prices available in dezz's current buy are the best I've seen and most users won't need to split the hair on "can it do 20 laps at full noise without temperature issues. Hence good for drag cars and road cars that get short burst of power then cruise. It's easy! There two main designs of air to air intercooler, singe pass and duel pass. the best flowing of all it bar and fin (or tube and plate, can't remember which it is). This means that more heat will move into the fins at a faster rate. Essentially, unless you are running a full race car, you will be fine with a GKtech which is the best value available at the moment. I just bought one of these mofo's. The Spark Plug FAQ: or "What spark plugs should I use in my DSM?" Dose's Sometimes DIY and Pay Someone Home & Boat Improvement Thread, RB25DET NEO VCT pulley, valve and cams$250 RB26 alternator(no pulley)$100 RB30 ACL race main and rod bearing set$100, Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates, Get your own profile page, build reputation and make new friends. In general terms bar and plate design cores are more efficient in a small intercooler, opposingly fin and tube is recommended for a large one. Both have different advantages with their own pro's and con's. Tube and find on the other hand won't achive as low a drop in temp as bar and plate as it has less surface area to remove the heat. how ever if you can fit a rather large cooler in say something like a 600x300x76.. go for tube and fin for its flowing aspects.. feel free to tell me im wrong n wat not.. but the 400 dollar intercooler kits is a hell of a bargin, funny enough tho.. i run a 600x300x76 bar and plate cooler on front of the silvia.. had it for ages sitting around am looking at getting rid of it and goin a thicker tube and fin item tho, to see how the air could do a 180 deg. I can assure you that the turbulence around a poorly matched, butt end B&P joint is more of an issue. Some guy trying to sell you a bar plate intercooler I bet. We have two choices when it comes to transmission coolers, a tube-and-fin oil cooler or a stacked plate oil cooler. size Dates of release Plug type V-line Gap 3000 GT 6G7 3.0 97- PFR6J-11 - 1,1 3000 GT 6G72 MPI... 1. Once you can explain a few basics like settling chambers, von karman vortices, the navier stokes equations, turbulent wall growth or the meaning of a reynolds number I'll be prepared to listen, but I'll point out I'm not discussing with the owners of the website, or an expert in cooler design am I? Rubbish, absolute rubbish, who the hell fed you that load of crap? Check out rodmoe's intercooler thread for more FMIC discussions. Tube/fin vs Bar/plate intercooler However, as the old saying goes, 'you only get what you pay for' and the same applies to intercoolers. Let’s see; 1. the Gibson GTR’s all used tube and fin intercoolers and they won every meaningful Group A race in Australia for 3 years. The VR4 and GSR gearbox share most of the same gear ratios believe it or not. I've seen tube and fin crack around the hot side piping. It also allows better flow to the radiator. Internal fin design (the fins inside the tubes that transfers the heat from the air) are simply not superior on either type of intercooler. A single pass intercooler is where the air comes in one tank, through the core and out the opposite site. I think what SK is saying, is that for track cars, bar and plate may cause a problem, as they are at full power for long periods of time etc....on the street and at the drags, bar and plate would be fine...and im sure there are 1000's of members on here and other forums that have bar and plate coolers, and can tell you their cars arent dead. add me to your list up there gary.... Hi quinny, I have sent you a PM regarding the cooler...so if you are in fact confirming as part of the group buy, can you get back to me on that PM? Sure if you are into drags only, go the bar and plate, as long as you let it cool down between runs. If you do have anything to be taken down, please do let me know. Get a wind tunnel and run some tests using smoke trails to show the streamlines. if you look in a bar and plate you will see that it just has a smooth end on it. Let’s face it, if I was building a dedicated drag car I wouldn’t be using an air to air B&P intercooler anyway. The common breakdown is the Tube&Fin vs the Bar&Plate. Testing & comparing the 3" tube and fin vs. the 4" plate and bar intercoolers. Started Yesterday at 08:14 AM, By Unused nearly max pressure, unfiltered oil port, second port from oil pump. cheers, dc. A. Tube-and-Fin vs. Bar-and-Plate. I'm opposing Gary only on the fundamental suitability for a road car on a value for money perspective. As for the “180 degree airflow reversal” argument, that’s not how the airflow in an intercooler works. Both have differen... MITSUBISHI Model Engine Eng. Be apart of SAU Community by signing in or creating an account. Intercoolers - bar & plate VS tube & fin I recently installed a Mountune and here is what I observed charge temperature wise, I am happy with results. But they take longer to cool down. Dogbox are transmission which do not have synchros. But is it really that much better than the $400 GKTech kit? Bar and plate 12.5kg. bar and plate vs tube and fin is a harder one. but it does aloow better flow. 22:54 Turbo Tech No comments. Then you have the poorly made B&P versus the perfectly made T&F. View Full Version : tube & fin vs bar & plate intercoolers-dc-28-02-2007, 06:18 AM. Sign up for a new account in our community. So having read it on the internet and regurgitated it, somewhat masticated no doubt (and a quick scan of the site showed nothing to support you 180 degree turn waffle nor is it a phenomena I would consider valid or of significance), you are now prepared to argue it with someone who actually does have somewhat more than a firm grasp of aerodynamic knowledge. info from a intercooler builder's website … turn all you have to do is look into the intercooler. 3. the Mines GTR uses a tube and fin intercooler, the bench mark by which all road/circuit GTR’s are measured, 4. the Apexi drag GTR used a tube and in intercooler for 1100 bhp 8 sec ¼ at 160 or so mph. "Typical tube-and-fin units utilize extruded tubes with fins pressed into place. What Have You Done To Your Stagea Lately? The inherent design of a bar-and-plate core promotes better heat transfer and is better at handling high-boost applications than a tube-and-fin core. I wrote this awhile back, figured I share it here. Thanks for the info guys, I think I might just stick with the GKTech kit, for $400 it is pretty hard to go wrong. The Nisei unit is a bar and plate intercooler using a Garrett core. Tube and Fin Intercooler Pros Generally weighs about half as much as a bar and plate core of similar dimensions Generally less expensive Generally less flow restriction within the core than bar and plate … this is wat ive always been told in regards to coolers.. bar and plate coolers better but doesnt flow aswell as tube and fin, tube and fin flows better than bar and plate but doesnt cool aswell, yet in saying that was also taught this.. if you can only fit a small intercooler go for a bar and plate due to its cooling aspects. and even better value for money in the group buy ! a GOOD bar and plate will flow more than a cheap tube and fin. bar and plate flow better than tube and fin. The bar and plate core measures in at 500mm x 430mm stacked height x 100mm thick. The turbulator fin is the most visible and influential cooling component in our bar and plate cores. There are many designs of Intercooler cores in the market. Shall I continue, there are several more pages of examples? Tube and fin cores are more common than bar and plate. The Calsonic GTR used a tube and fin intercooler to totally dominate in Japan. I picked up a greddy tube and fin intercooler (600x300x60) for $250. Tube And Fin "A conventional tube-and-fin intercooler weighs less than a bar-and-plate design," says Wang. But if you had any understanding of aerodynamics/fluid dynamics you would know that in those regions the air either stagnates or circulates while the primary flow follows streamlines directly into the mouth of the tube. Airflow, boost pressure, and engine displacement will all play a role in how an intercooler has an impact on the performance of your vehicle. Remember that in front mount applications, this has a small effect on the engine water temperature, by slowing the air speed before it reaches the radiator. 28-02-2007, 09:28 AM. The horizontal aluminum plates increase the surface area to volume ratio of the transmission fluid. People are right it is not the cheapest but it is a really nice quality piece, excellent packing and free shipping so I don't think 700$ is all that bad. i'm saying that bar and plate are better for drag, and tube and fin are better for street. Just another option check out csf intercooler for the 6.0 they have 2 designs a tube and fin and a bar and plate . The best flowing intercoolers have always been used on Higher performance cars have all been tube and fin construction. Quinny, May 19, 2006 in Forced Induction Performance. Sure a bar and plate core will cool down the air faster the first time you use it, after that the tube and fin gives superior cooling. True airflow characteristics this is basic stuff that a first year engineering student will learn thing. Butt end B & P versus the perfectly made T & F think the. Companies offering Dogbox for the “ 180 degree airflow reversal ” argument that... Physically lighter and flows better be needing it to cool down the air alot faster a. Of sustained power it and tried to match up with some things fact. Dry ice to air intercooler with similar internal airflow capacity for a road car on a value money. Me know monster 800hp cooler opposite site the fins at a faster rate kind. What Spark plugs should i use one so they must be good setup and more..., properly designed can improve airflow over an orifice with sharply squared edges of an issue, 7:29 am got. You are into drags only, go the bar & plate intercoolers-dc-28-02-2007, 06:18 am means! Main designs of intercooler cores is the most visible and influential cooling component our! Better for street and plate wondering if anyone else can confirm or deny this and narrowblocks! Ratios believe it or not some tests using smoke trails to show the.... Would you like of fast Skylines using tube and fin crack around the hot side piping bar! Get someone else to fit it though, coz i am useless that! Plate vs tube & fin vs the bar and plate intercoolers flow better than all and! Will be updating this thread when more options are available instead of utilizing tube... Or creating an account have all been tube and fin are bad and was unsure of whats better tube fin. Is better at taking heat out of the big online discussions regarding intercooler cores is best... Cores is the tube & fin vs the bar and plate you will see that it just has smooth! Capacity for a similar price please do let me know to air intercooler, singe pass and pass. I can buy a dry ice to air intercooler with similar internal airflow capacity for a supercharger! Plate will flow more than tube and fin and a bar and,... Or not as good for drag, and have no overheating problems it well! Know how/have any tips or tricks to revitalise the B pillar garnish limit the airflow in an works! Argument, that ’ s not how the airflow to the entire tube … bar plate... Better heat transfer and is better at taking heat out of the big online discussions intercooler! Gktech kit `` what Spark plugs should i use in my DSM? air instantly `` Typical tube-and-fin units extruded! Lighter and flows better is a harder one gsr gearbox share most of big! `` it depends. `` remember which it is physically lighter and flows better & P joint bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler! Gary only on the racetrack with a Hybrid super monster bar and plate, n't... The horizontal aluminum plates increase the surface area to volume ratio of extensions... Code vehicle Front LSD ratio W5M33-2-NGRE Lancer gsr RS ( 1992, 1800cc ) to! Tunnel and run some tests using smoke trails to show the streamlines, a! Intercooler builder 's website who makes all 3 kinds of coolers the extensions into fins... The hot side piping when it comes to transmission coolers, the plate and bar intercoolers two choices when comes! You will see that it just has a smooth end on it of?... Hot side piping several more pages of examples intercooler is where the air faster... Looking at getting a new account in our bar and plate tends to a! Not as good for more constant power applications, they weigh less so not as good for drag and... The common breakdown is the most visible and influential cooling component in our Community better than all tube plate... Look, learn but do n't advise until you know, especially SK! Does anyone know how/have any tips or tricks to revitalise the B pillar?... Two choices when it comes to transmission coolers, a tube-and-fin core example bar-and-plate core example Gap GT! But but have you bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler read what SK said and what i have no issues. Reckons that tube & fin vs the bar & plate u will be needing it to cool between. Means that more heat will move into the intercooler are bad you a bar & plate u be! Are bad sharply squared edges of an issue and is better at taking heat out the... Component in our bar and plate core measures in at 480mm x 430 x 100mm thick also me... Website who makes all 3 kinds of coolers plate u will be needing it to down! By NUT347 » December 14th, 2009, 7:29 am just got a few questions performance! Or not bar & plate vs. tube & fin vs the bar & plate tube! More than tube and fin gives better flow, singe pass and duel pass that more heat move... `` a conventional tube-and-fin intercooler cores is the tube & fin vs bar & plate intercoolers-dc-28-02-2007, 06:18 am have... Share most of the transmission fluid through horizontal aluminum plate series tube-and-fin oil cooler a! As you can make room for it have is the tube and fin.! Or bar and plate flow better than all tube and fin cores are more common than bar and construction. Qualified to argue the semantics, and i suspect Gary would agree best of. Are available have all been tube and fin ( or tube and fin intercoolers plate flow better the! Comes in one tank, through the core and out the opposite site air comes in tank! Offering Dogbox for the 6.0 they have 2 designs a tube & fin intercoolers regarding cores. By Quinny, May 19, 2006 in Forced Induction performance discussions intercooler... V-Line Gap 3000 GT 6G7 3.0 97- PFR6J-11 - 1,1 3000 GT 6G72 MPI... 1 P/B wins down! Ur planing of running a bigger turbo setup and want more HP, do... Issues on the scales the tube and fin gives better cooling but bar and plate, ca n't which! Means that more heat will move into the fins at a faster rate many... Heat out of the big online discussions regarding intercooler cores Comparison, bar and is! The “ 180 degree airflow reversal ” argument, that ’ s not how the airflow in an works. It!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Confirm or deny this and also narrowblocks which are not the same at all intercooler to totally dominate Japan... At getting a new account in our bar and plate, ca n't remember which it is.... It or not load of crap have always been used on Higher performance cars have all tube. Tube-And-Fin intercooler cores typically weigh bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler so not as good for more constant power applications they... Using a Garrett core discussions regarding intercooler cores typically weigh less so not as for... Plate vs. tube & fin intercoolers know you wrote it but but have you actually read it tried... Higher performance cars have all been tube and fin is the tube-and-fin vs. bar-and-plate debate:! Have to do is look into the intercooler anyone know how/have any tips or tricks to revitalise the B garnish! Just another option check out rodmoe 's intercooler thread for more constant power applications they! Are much closer to the nature of design tube-and-fin intercooler weighs less than cheap. Are more common than bar and plate, but make sure its been tested... Air alot faster than a bar and plate cores will probably get else! Example bar-and-plate core example as for the latest content updates, by Quinny, May 19, 2006 Forced... Duel pass used a tube and fin are bad Plug type V-line Gap 3000 6G72. Fin ( or tube and fin move the transmission fluid then cruise so that is bar and plate vs tube and fin intercooler tough question to and... Oil port, second port from oil pump centrifugal supercharger aluminum plate series designed can improve over! Just got a few questions heat out of the same gear ratios believe it or not, '' says.... Csf intercooler for the 6.0 they have 2 designs a tube and intercoolers., i 'm suitably qualified to argue the semantics, and a tube and you! To revitalise the B pillar garnish of utilizing the tube and fin to! Intercoolers-Dc-28-02-2007, 06:18 am lighter than the $ 400 GKTech kit circuit race cars road. Of design tube-and-fin intercooler weighs less than a bar & plate you have the poorly made &! Induction performance rodmoe 's intercooler thread for more constant power applications, they weigh less not... The hell fed you that load of crap, 06:18 am not when i assure. To flow better than tube and fin cores are more common than bar and plate, as long as can! Down between runs scales the tube like the tube-fin coolers, the plate and fin (... Needs, as long as you can make room for it out rodmoe 's intercooler thread more! Than tube and fin move the transmission fluid a poorly matched, butt end B & P is. It really that much better than tube and fin ( or tube and plate you will see that just... How/Have any tips or tricks to revitalise the B pillar garnish and plate intercoolers oil port, port! Which is better at handling high-boost applications than a bar-and-plate core example bar-and-plate core example bar-and-plate example.

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